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Regular user
lots of places
124 Posts
Posted: Jul 12, 2023 03:58 pm Hey Everyone,
Before I ask my question I do want to preface it, by saying that there is a huge chance that I'm just thinking about this stuff way too much, and it has so much more to do with how you fill the stage. But even if that's true this might still be a useful resource for others.
Now to my question.
In putting together a more formal parlor show I realized how much of my routines involve flat pieces of paper. Whether it's a deck of cards, billets, notepads etc, and I'm hoping to make the visuals of my show look a bit more dynamic. So I pose the question to the brilliant members of this forum.
What objects besides anything "card" related have their place in a mentalism show?
Off the top of my head I have dice, coins, pendulums, and Rubik's cubes, but I know that together we can come up with so much more. And also just share any thoughts about how to make the pictures of your mentalism look very different at different points in the act.
Joshua Jay is the one who got me thinking about this when he mentioned how he tries to make sure that his routines all have a different amount of spectators on stage. I think it could be a really useful exercise.
Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts and time.
Best,
Brandon
We should all be in a constant state of wonder
New user
72 Posts
Variety of the stage picture is essential to captivate attention and also helps with memory. Try different number of spectators, spectators sitting, you sitting on stage or in audience for a routine. Just a few thoughts but variety can be achieved in many ways not just different props.
Regular user
lots of places
124 Posts
Great ideas. Really appreciate you taking the time to share, ijustwannalearn.
We should all be in a constant state of wonder
Loyal user
204 Posts
Derren Brown did a really beautiful Koran's Medallion routine that used a variety of interesting props. There was an old chest that held a smaller box, and inside that smaller box was a beautiful whiskey glass which held a ball of yarn. The thread of this ball of yarn was then pulled throughout the audience as the ball of yarn danced inside the whiskey glass unraveling to reveal an even smaller box which contained an engraved medallion. Each step really added a lot of visual interest, audience participation, and audience anticipation.
Maybe you can think of ways you want to stage your routine and then select props that can help with your staging of the effects.
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1429 Posts
Books.
Special user
596 Posts
Choose one ability and stick to it. The more different your effects are the less believable your performance becomes. You cant please everyone.
New user
72 Posts
No problem chosen 1, I find it extremely difficult to get answers to questions that I have on this site as well, it seems to me a lot of people here donât like sharing or giving good advice or answer and question without coming across pretentious or worse sarcastic. I sincerely hope the culture changes.
Veteran user
Scottsdale, AZ
334 Posts
2
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2023, chosen1 wrote:
What objects besides anything "card" related have their place in a mentalism show?
Answer: anything you want.
In the set I'm performing this weekend the main props are specimen cups with a yellow liquid inside. Very far from cards. 
In one I'm working on, I'm using five record albums, which, while flat, aren't cards. And in another, also music-related, the main prop is a ukulele.
(Sidebar: That a mentalist can walk in with a briefcase and do an hour show is an ideal I'll never see. I *could* do it, but I like "fun things" in my shows.)
In the past I've used Colin Cloud's Safe Opener (from his Penguin lecture) which is a couple paper bags and a broken bottle (although replaced by an iced coffee in my version).
There's a ton of stuff that can be done with billets, but I wouldn't do one right after the other after the other. I want someone watching my show "with the sound off" to be able to tell one trick from the other just by sight. I might be "reading someone's mind" three times in a row, but I'm going to attempt to make it look and feel different each time.
Jay
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Inner circle
Seattle, WA
4712 Posts
An individual who performs mentalism can easily purchase all the necessary supplies for a complete show at an office supply store. The props used by a mentalist should resemble common items that people see on a regular basis.
In contrast, the bizarrist...
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
Eternal Order
10615 Posts
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2023, ijustwannalearn wrote:
No problem chosen 1, I find it extremely difficult to get answers to questions that I have on this site as well, it seems to me a lot of people here donât like sharing or giving good advice or answer and question without coming across pretentious or worse sarcastic. I sincerely hope the culture changes.
I hear this regularly from others here. I've always tried to help and provide answers when I can, but here's the thing... You have to know where you are here and the current landscape. Most here today are amateurs and hobbyists. They do not have the answers you are seeking. Many are actually looking for the same things as you. The pros that may have such insights and answers based on real-world knowledge and experience have either left here or feel that they have worked very hard to learn, grow, and achieve what they have, usually over years of doing so, and do not always feel like giving this hard-earned info away for free with a pretty bow on it just for the asking. Part of learning the art and craft is the process itself. Some feel paying your dues is also part of this process and giving away all the answers and secrets prevents this and actually prevents or impairs your progress.
I know I am different and have written volumes here (in another Café forum) for years, but not everyone feels the same way as I do about sharing such knowledge and experience.
Also, another factor that comes heavily into play is many really can't handle the truth or do not want to hear the harsh realities. To me, this too is part of the learning process.
These two things are likely why you feel others aren't addressing your questions or providing the "real" information you are seeking. Remember working pros operate from an entirely different place and position than hobbyists and amateurs and often feel such information is should be more guarded.
Eternal Order
10615 Posts
To the OP, most of today's mentalism is performed by magicians, so therefore most mentalism looks like magic. I have discussed here before the experiment I originally conducted to prove this. I have since been asked to repeat it for other groups on several occasions and the results they received were mind-blowing and always the same. Even longtime performers had no idea how the public and audiences see what we do as it is often entirely different than most performers realize. You must step put of your zone to see how others see and experience it.
This is a great topic which deserves much more serious conversations, but unfortunately magician's default thinking always factors into it.
Right away the discussion almost always goes into performance effects.
The difference should occur before you ever even get to effects. The late Tony Razzano and I had several great discussions on this. He, after performing for decades, finally saw this for what it was and became fascinated by my findings and changing this longtime perception.
Regular user
lots of places
124 Posts
A heartfelt thanks to everyone who has taken the time to answer. There is so much food for thought on this post and I appreciate you all for feeding the conversation.
Mr. Jennings I'm desperately curious about how you use a ukulele in your act. Is that that something you are comfortable sharing? Completely understand if you don't. No pressure at all.
Mindpro, as always you come in with a detailed and thought provoking response. Are these findings something you can share with us? I'd love to know what you taught the great Razzano who also gave so much to this forum.
Again thank you to everyone who has responded, and everyone who will. I've learned a lot.
Best,
Brandon
We should all be in a constant state of wonder
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1429 Posts
Quote:
On Jul 15, 2023, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote:
The props used by a mentalist should resemble common items that people see on a regular basis.
Or, do whatever you want to do and don't let people on the internet tell you what mentalism should or should not look like.
I always get a chuckle when I read advice on the Café that says you should be as generic and interchangeable as the next guy.
The answer to the question asked is deeply personal. What makes my act look different to any other mentalist will not work for you, nor should you strive to make your act look like mine.
Start by exploring hobbies and interests outside of magic and mentalism, take some time off if you need to. If you find things that are of interest to you and bring them into your performances they will be of interest to your audience as well.
Don't concern yourself with what Jay does with his ukulele, his answer won't help you. In fact, it may even hamper you from doing something as unique and original.
Find your own metaphorical ukulele.
Veteran user
Scottsdale, AZ
334 Posts
"Find your own metaphorical ukulele."
Awesome advice! Second only to, "Or, do whatever you want to do and don't let people on the internet tell you what mentalism should or should not look like."
The ukulele thing was created to give me a way to get into open-mics where they really only wanted musicians. I'm doing music -- but reading a mind, too.
Mystery arts articles and thoughts:
Free video crash course for numerology readings:
Regular user
lots of places
124 Posts
Beautifully said Mr. Stone. Appreciate the well considered reply.
I hope what I'm asking is not coming off as trying to take other people's material. It's simply interest. I have less musical talent than a tree stump on a calm morning. I'd never use a musical instrument in my act. But I'm fascinating how someone would bring that into their show. And I think we can all learn from each other, even if it's as simple as checking something off our list, because now we know that could never work for us. You also never know what single phrase or word, or offhanded thought is going to wake up the muse. Always found it best to follow curiosity and see where it leads you.
Just figured it could be nice to hear from others what varied props they have used in their show.
My life has been blessed with many fascinating hobbies. I write for film and television, and the research it's taken me to get wherel I'm at, has made me a jack of many trades. I love chess, memory stunts, I've been in martial arts for over 25 years, I've been to over 70 countries and loved all of them. Photography, hypnosis, speedcubing, juggling, even cup stacking are all things I've had the immense pleasure of spending time with. It's been a blast and I couldn't be more grateful. The suggestion to bring other interest into a mentalism show is brilliant, and not lost on me, and I hope anyone else that is reading. It's the true path to connecting with your audience.
In one of my last shows I did a book test with a film script I wrote purely for that show. It allowed me a chance to talk about the thing I love to do most in the world, and why I love it. Well received and so much more fun to do.
I hope everyone takes your advice to heart.
Have an amazing day Mr. Stone.
Best,
Brandon
We should all be in a constant state of wonder
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1429 Posts
Nobody's accusing anyone of anything.
Suffice to say the best thing you can do is find something to say that only you can say. The film script is a great place to start.
While I believe your intentions regarding seeing other peoples material, and it is true you can learn a lot about the kind of performer you DON'T want to be by watching others, you run the risk of inadvertently sounding more like them than you.
Don't worry about them, worry about you. Find your voice and what you want to say. If you happen to see someone else and learn something about yourself all the better, but I wouldn't go out looking for other magicians and mentalists to inspire me.
Artists, comedians, musicians - yes. Magicians and mentalists - no.
Regular user
Northern California
128 Posts
Just playing devil's advocate here: How are artists, comedians, and musicians different? I think falling into the trap of mimicry vs inspiration is prevalent in all creative fields.
Many musicians, comedians, and artists copy, inadvertently or not, their idols, only to (hopefully) find their own "voice" through the process.
Inner circle
Miami, FL
1429 Posts
The idea being look for inspiration outside the field of magic....
Inner circle
Ninth Circle, Hades
3269 Posts
Quote:
On Jul 12, 2023, chosen1 wrote:
Hey Everyone,Before I ask my question I do want to preface it, by saying that there is a huge chance that I'm just thinking about this stuff way too much, and it has so much more to do with how you fill the stage. But even if that's true this might still be a useful resource for others.
Now to my question.
In putting together a more formal parlor show I realized how much of my routines involve flat pieces of paper. Whether it's a deck of cards, billets, notepads etc, and I'm hoping to make the visuals of my show look a bit more dynamic. So I pose the question to the brilliant members of this forum.
What objects besides anything "card" related have their place in a mentalism show?
Off the top of my head I have dice, coins, pendulums, and Rubik's cubes, but I know that together we can come up with so much more. And also just share any thoughts about how to make the pictures of your mentalism look very different at different points in the act.
Joshua Jay is the one who got me thinking about this when he mentioned how he tries to make sure that his routines all have a different amount of spectators on stage. I think it could be a really useful exercise.
Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts and time.
Best,
Brandon
Great topic + great people = great thread. Thanks Brandon
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann
Inner circle
Western Canada...where all that oil is
4008 Posts
There is something to be said for mentalism props that look perfectly ordinary. I still recall seeing a mentalist performing with a change bag at a convention. While the change bag is visually interesting it doesn't look like anything else...and attention is drawn to it BECAUSE it looks odd. This works for magicians...but not for mentalists. I want people to see remarkable things happening with objects they use every day: books, cards, clipboards. There's a lovely silent credibility that is imparted there.
Having said all that, I understand your concern. A bare stage looks...well...empty.
I started doing fairs and grandstands about eight years ago and I realized that it wasn't going to be practical to go into the audience every time I needed a volunteer. I talked it over with Sheree, my partner, and she suggested that I bring eight people out of the audience at the beginning of a show. It works perfectly! I liked it so much I use onstage volunteers in every show. I have no lag time getting volunteers...and everyone on stage wants to be there. I'm able to weed out the drunks and the too shy.
Visually: I have a stage with myself as well as eight volunteers seated on chairs...and it has added a whole new dynamic. I can choose the exact right person for each effect. The audience gets to know the volunteers, I get to have fun with them and the reactions of the volunteer I am using is often even stronger from those who are on stage watching. I don't expect this to work for everyone -- but it's now a cornerstone of what I do.
So I am suggesting that you use PEOPLE to dress up your show. I have a Which Hand effect that I used to do with one person. Now I have four people stand, fists extended before them -- only one actually holding the coin. It is no harder than doing the routine with one person -- but having four there adds a fresh dimension and visual interest to the effect. And a two minute effect has been expanded to an eight minute gem. Lots of laughter, audience engagement and surprises...with a great reveal at the end.
Nothing is more interested to people than other people.
Hope this is helpful, Brandon.
David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
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